The Truth About Motivating Employees

Kristen: Welcome to Love and Leadership, the podcast that helps you lead with both your head and your heart, plus a bit of humor. I'm Kristen Brun Sharkey, a leadership coach and facilitator.

Mike: And I'm Mike Sharkey, a senior living and hospitality executive. We're a couple of leadership nerds who also happen to be a couple.


Kristen: Join us each week as we share our unfiltered opinions, break down influential books, and interview inspiring guests.


Mike: Whether you're a seasoned executive or a rising star, we're here to help you level up your leadership game and amplify your impact.

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Kristen: Hello and welcome back to Love and Leadership. I'm Kristen.

Mike: I'm Mike.

Kristen: Oh, no, we're still like getting over the cold from hell, so, 

Mike: It's gotta be the flu.

Kristen: I, I mean, I tested negative in the home test, but I, that

Mike: I mean, there's different kinds of flus, right? I don't know. That was a pretty mean cold. 

Kristen: Yeah, it did. It's, it was like worse than covid.

Mike: covid. It was worse than the last time we got covid.

Because it just kept it, like the last time we got Covid

Was like 36 hours of atrocity, and then just a week and a half of like mild symptoms. This was like a week of just on the floor.

Kristen: Yeah. It was brutal. But we are here, um, we put out a a short episode last week since we were not capable of recording really. And we still, I especially have some sick voice going on still,

Mike: I'm pretty congested.

Kristen: Yeah. So just bear with us. 

Mike: Our, audience really cares about

Kristen: I know. Just like it's so true. Just, bear with us, but we are here and we are today talking about what people, which is something I really enjoy talking about because I think it's pretty misunderstood.

So we'll get into that. But first off, Mike, do you have any leadership moments?

Mike: Well, I would say doing the first 90 days and then seeing that in action.

I, I've really like internalized a lot of that and breaking down the book. You know, it's kind of the Art of War. It's like a very comprehensive strategy book and being only about 60 days into my current role,I can really see all of it play out, assessing your, your assets, finding the key players.

This new job is kind of unique for me. There's a lot of different, interested parties. And, there's a lot of I don't wanna say competing needs 'cause it's not really competing, but there's alot of different, like governing bodies and Um,

Kristen: You we have a lot of like horizontal,

Mike: A lot of horizontal stuff and, and really, breaking out the stars and seeing okay.

Like hearing about what a real alignment looks like. Okay. Total realignment, even to the point of oh, in a realignment, you're going to be trying to convince people that change is actually necessary, and that, that has definitely taken place as opposed to like a turnaround where it's like we're about to go on.

So it's not like that, but the realignment is uh it's a challenge because it's not, everybody is aware that there's needed change. So anyway, leadership moment, First 90 Days, amazing book. And, yeah, I, I got so much out of it, apparently when I read it the first time, You, you don't have time to, and well, I'm sorry. We won't get political too much, butyou get 90 days right. And I'm actually listening to a podcast. The first a hundred days, I believe came about from, FDR in his first a hundred days. That was when he, came in and really tried to like start the turnaround of the Great Depression and then presidents after him were compared to what they could accomplish in the same amount of time that FDR.

Butyou can come in like a bull in a china shop and try and make a lot of changes and maybe it's good changes, maybe not, I don't know, maybe you cause a lot of chaos and maybe that's your goal, but. Especially nowadays, you don't have a lot of time to make impact before you know the situation changes again.

So being able to accelerate that, those changes that impact and change the direction in a, in the way that you want, uh is so powerful. 

Kristen: Nice. That's awesome. 

Um, Mine, I think I've been reflecting on an interview we did that will air next week with Shelli Brunswick. It was awesome. But one, one of the things I really like, 'cause she talks about three components of leadership and one of the three is gratitude. And really talking about the fact that like every leader needs a gratitude practice.

And I really like this. I'm thinking about how I can incorporate it into my coaching as well as, my own life.

Mike: Nice. I think it's smart. I think we're trying to do that again in the evening, I'm grateful for our gratitude practice and our wins practice.

Well, I, I'm grateful for the ability to be able to change my own mindset, and helpguide our oneself in a good direction. That's not easy. A lot of people, myself included, you can be stuck in patterns and cycles for years and decades or lifetimesthe ability to change is very, I'm very grateful for that. 

Kristen: For sure. Cool. Well, with that, let's jump into motivation.So this is, I love learning out on this topic. I think I learned a lot more about it when I was in my Master's program. So what I wanted to do today is share a few of the most popular motivation theories. There are a lot of motivation theories out there, and, you can go deep into them if you wish, but I think these are three of the most popular as applied to the workplace.

And then talk about what that means. But I'd love to ask you, Mike,what do you think motivates employees?

Mike: So many things. Fear. Fear is a big motivator. Fear of loss.

Right. I think, we have the negative bent that we, your brain's I think that's a, you can't ignore that.

Kristen: Yeah. Yeah.

Mike: As a motivator. 

Kristen: That's definitely covered within these theories. 

Mike: Yeah. 

Motivate gain, right? You need money. For some people, advancement is a motivation, for some people they're working off some other like paradigm of impetus, be it like, like us, we're, people, I'm a people pleaser, so we wind up in the service industry and you do well, there can be a lot of different things motivating you. But I, I think fear is a bigger motivator than we really talk about a lot. 

Kristen: Yeah. Well, I think that one that feeds nicely into the first theory, which is the one that people are most likely to be familiar with, which is Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

It's the pyramid. And it's a conceptualization of the needs that motivate human behavior. This was proposed by psychologist Abraham Maslow in 1943, and the whole idea is that it's a pyramid. There's five different components of it, and the idea is that the level below needs to be satisfied or mostly satisfied before the need for the next level kind of really kicks in.

Mike: I dunno if the need or the ability to even address that need.

I think is more, you know,

Kristen: Yeah.

Mike: We all, we all want those things, but if you can't address the base needs, then you can't move forward. Yeah. Yeah.

Kristen: And so like the base needs are, the base of the pyramid is to physiological needs, so our biological needs for human survival, air, food, water, shelter, sleep, et cetera.

And then the next level is safety needs. So that encompasses like physical safety as well as things like financial security, emotional security, like just generally feeling safe and secure. The next level is love and social needs are like feelings of connection and belongingness with others. The next is esteem.

So this is like respect and admiration from others, like recognition status, et cetera. And then the top of the pyramid is self-actualization, which is realizing one's full potential. And kind of applying these to the workplace. If you think of each of these levels, so physiological needs absolutely apply in the workplace, right? Because if these are like the base level of requirements for people to feel comfortable at work and be productive, if somebody's starving, they're probably not productive. So it's like making it easy for your employees to eat at work, and whether that's yeah, you're the old school tech way of providing food or just having your office in a place where food is accessible, things like that.

Things like air ventilation, like the basic like work environment things that are just what people need to be comfortable. And if people don't have that level of comfort, it's gonna be hard for them to be productive.

Mike: Yeah, I think it's, I mean, ventilation, but it's like the environment, you know, is it freezing?

I know somebody that they worked for a company that they would just go to work and it was so cold all the time that they would wear sweaters and scarves to work in an office, and it's I understand there's some like, ooh, cold will keep you more alert. But they were miserable because of it and the physical environment like they, they needed a standup desk in the years before that was a thing. And the company like fought them on this why, 

Kristen: Yep.The next one, safety needs is also super important. I think you, when you talk about like fear motivating people, I think a lot of it comes from this level where people need to feel like they have job security and they're not in danger of physical harm.

And when either of these things are at risk. It's really hard for people to get anything done, like when I've seen this so many times that there's like impending layoffs.

Mike: Yeah. And

Kristen: Yeah. And it's really makes it hard to get any actual business done.

Mike: Yeah, 

Kristen: So that's safety needs. And then social needs is really comes down to creating a workday that allows for meaningful social interaction. And people like see this and they're like, oh, team building events like yeah, great. Do team building stuff, but also like a lot of this is cultural, so do you have a kind of culture where people feel like they can hang out and chit chat, or is it like get back to work? Because if it's more of the latter, especially people who are more sociable in terms of personality traits are, but everybody to some extent are not gonna be happy.

Mike: Yeah. You want to like your coworkers and enjoy the you know going to work. 

For sure. 

I'm careful of businesses that are like, we're a family. No. Family. No, you're not. you might be like a tribe or a, something like that, but you're not a family.

Family. Like, you never fire, you know, an economic downturn. You don't, you probably don't like, remove a fa I just can't afford you right now. I'm sorry to let you go, but you like what? No. You want to feel, connected you wanna feel like you're part of something bigger than yourself that's meaningful. 

Kristen: Yeah.

Well, yeah.

That kind of gets into the last two. So esteem needs, this really comes down to like employees feeling recognized for their expertise and for their accomplishments. 

Mike: Yeah. 

Kristen: And then self-actualization plays out as employees feeling like they're supported in establishing goals and working towards them. So, development.

Mike: Yeah.

Kristen: So

Mike: I mean, I've always, I don't know if this is the truth of the universe, but I've always liked Maslow's hierarchy of needs. 

Kristen: It definitely, explains some things. I don't think any one of these is like the absolute truth, right? I think they all tell us something about human motivation.

Mike: I think it's really telling. It's very hard to be happy and feel safe and fulfilled flower and flourish. If you're worried about like, where is my next meal gonna come from? Or am I gonna lose my home? Or, those are terribly paralyzing things I. And they're real fears. You know,we're seeing a lot of economic upheaval, and those are

When you're a kid, you, I, I, I, I never knew that it was so serious that you could keep a job and that you, you know, like your parents feed you, hopefully, and they dress you and they pay for the bill, and you don't have any.My generation, I don't wanna say we grew up without worries, but we grew up fairly affluent.

We all had houses, we had our own rooms, we had TVs in our room, and I never worried about where a meal was coming from. I didn't even know that was a thing. And then you're a grownup and you're like, dish soap is very expensive, you know, and, and nobody's buying it for me. And I, I, you know, and you're trying to, so,

Kristen: Yeah, for sure.

Mike: The next theory is Herzberg's two factor theory. So it's also known as like the motivation hygiene theory. And this is one I found out about in my Master's program and it kind of blew my mind because I knew there was something wrong with the way a lot of companies are thinking about what motivates employees, and I think this explains a lot of it. Maybe not all of it, but explains a lot of So this theory argues that there's distinct factors that cause job satisfaction and distinct factors that cause job dissatisfaction in the workplace. This is developed by psychologist Frederick Herzberg in 1987 and.

Kristen: This among many other things. It kind of dispels this common notion that motivation increases in lockstep with salary. That if somebody needs to be motivated you give them a higher salary or you, which I think is something that we tend to think that compensation is very much in line with motivation.

But what this theory is actually saying is that there's, so he investigated like 14 different factors that are like related to job satisfaction, and he classified them as either hygienic factors, which are the ones that if they're not present, they'll increase job dissatisfaction.

And then motivation factors, which are ones that are like positively influencing job satisfaction. So the hygiene factors, and you can think of these as if these are not present, people are going to be dissatisfied, but they're not actually gonna motivate somebody positively. So this includes like company policies, so like clarity and fairness and rules and procedures. Supervision, the quality of the leadership and management support.

Also, like your relationship with your boss. Work conditions, so like the physical environment, tools and resources provided salary. Though compensation that's perceived as fair and adequate. Relationship, which is like the nature of your interpersonal relationships at work. Job security. So feeling assurance of continuity in your job and work life balance. So like the ability to maintain a healthy balance between professional and personal life. So these are the things that if these are not sufficient. They're going to create job dissatisfaction, but they're not necessarily going to positively motivate somebody, which kind of makes sense. You think about this, right?

Like company policies are something you pay attention to if they're bad.

Mike: Yeah, I've never heard of this before, but I, I find it very interesting. And sort of in line with the experience I'm currently having. My, my current company is quite large,well established, and they have all this stuff, and I literally sat down today with my, regional director and we established my goals.

I didn't exactly need him to do that. I knew my goal is NOI, my goal is like employee retention. My goal is like. But we really just very quickly spelled everything out. It was like, here's the five goals. They're weighted this, and they just have such long thought out procedures and they have a lot of resources in terms of like, they have a big HR department and while this isn't like directly, I would, I totally agree. It's not directly contributing to my job happiness. These make me feel like solid and that I know what's expected. I know where we stand. I.

Kristen: They're preventing job 

Mike: They're preventing job dissatisfaction. And in, in the converse, I've worked for companies that, that couldn't figure out, even basic policies.

And it's very frustrating and it's frustrating as a leader. 'Cause then when you have to hold somebody, you know, hold a team member accountable, where's the policy? What's the standards? What's the, you know.That can be very frustrating. Yeah, for sure. This kind of tracks,

Kristen: It plays out in many ways.

I mean, I think it tracks for compensation.If somebody does not feel like they're fairly compensated, that is absolutely gonna be a demotivator. But at a certain point, if you're already making a good salary and you feel like it's a fair salary, like it's not going to create a huge impact on your job motivation.

Mike: I mostly agree, but I also remember in my own journey. There came a point when I could finally afford to live. Yeah. And that changed my willingness to drink the Kool-Aid, if you will, of my job, and really put my full self into a job. Andwhen I was a cook earning $10 an hour in New York City, it was very hard to be passionate about the vision of the organization.

I was just like, why can't I afford my rent? Why? You know, I'm. And back to Maslow's, I don't have the base thing set, so you can't expect my wholehearted cooperation. You certainly can't expect my satisfactionI'm going along grudgingly at best from some personal discipline not Yeah.

Not a shared vision with you.

Kristen: Yeah, for sure. If you're not at that threshold, it's going to

Mike: Yeah.

Kristen: Significantly affect your job satisfaction and performance. Yeah, for most people. Yep.

Mike: It's like everybody's down on millennials. They don't work hard. I don't know if they don't work hard. I know they have different priorities and they also don't have the same like hopes and dreams of previous generations.

Like I don't know that they really hope to own a home or retire, that American dream was sold to my generation, but it hasn't really manifested for my generation. A lot of people that I've grown up with and that I know we, we've never owned a home, you know?

I think the bar has really shifted.

Sodo we blame that generation for not wanting to like work hard and, put for what, like what's their, what are they getting out of it? You know, all they're doing is marking time and trying to like, pay for the things that, the experiences that they want to have. 

Kristen: Yeah. 

So yeah, so that's hygiene factors and the idea is like these need to be at like a base level of fulfillment for the other set of factors to really like matter and kick in. And those are the motivation factors. So these are the things that are actually gonna like positively increase job satisfaction and motivation.

So these include achievement, so like the sense of accomplishment that comes from completing meaningful tasks. Recognition, so like being acknowledged for a job well done. The work itself, so like the nature of the work, having work that is interesting and challenging. Responsibility. So like feeling like you have control over your own work and being trusted with important tasks.

So like not micromanagement. Advancement, like opportunities for career progression and growth. And personal growth. So continuous learning and development. So these are like the true positive motivators. And you can think of this as if you look at a matrix and on one axis is the hygiene factors one, and the other one is the motivation factors.

So you have like four different kind of possibilities with this. So if you have both low hygiene factors and low motivation factors. You're just miserable in your job, right? If you have high hygiene factors, so like all of these, those base things are satisfied, but low motivation factors, you're comfortable, but ultimately it's an unfulfilling job.

So this is where you're thinking of your job as a paycheck, basically. You're not getting like deeper motivation from it. On the other side of that, if you have low hygiene factors, but the motivation factors are high, you end up in a situation where like the work may be meaningful, but it's also hard and you probably have some employee complaints.

I think this is like the classic startup I work environment where you are working really hard and probably not getting all your physiological needs met and, having done this myself and are probably not getting paid as well as you could be. But maybe you're really excited about the work and the meaning of it, but it's not very like sustainable for the long term, for most people.

And then finally the, if you have high hygiene factors, high motivation factors, this is like what you're working towards, right? This is a fun and exciting job, highly motivated, few complaints coming from employees. And then lastly, I liked this quote as a way to explain this theory more though.

This is from like a 1975 paper from Rogers. Adequate salary, good working conditions, respected supervisors and likable coworkers won't produce a satisfied worker. They will only produce a worker who is not dissatisfied. However, their levels must be acceptable for the motivation factors to become operative.

In other words, like medical hygiene practices, hygiene factors can't cure an illness, but they can aid in preventing it. 

Mike: Yeah, I was trying to figure out how hygiene can, but okay. that makes sense. Yeah. It's like situational hygiene.

Kristen: Yeah. It's like hygiene factors in a

Mike: Organizational

Kristen: in a hospital can, are not gonna make somebody better, but they can certainly make somebody a lot worse.

So I think that's

Mike: Two factor theory that's interesting. I've, some of this like kind of dovetails back to Maslow's stuff. Like if you don't have the, bottom couple tiers. I feel like the hygiene stuff is the bottom couple tiers. It's this interesting way of looking at it. 

Kristen: Yeah.

Yeah. I thought this theory was so cool when I first learned it and it helped reframe the way I think about like how you motivate people.And you know, as a leader, this is actually, I think good news in some ways. If for leader like middle managers, you may not have a lot of control over the company level stuff. So that is problematic. But it shows you where it's worth fighting for somebody. Like if somebody's not getting fair market compensation, who's really good, like making, fighting for that. But you also have a lot of the power when it comes to positively motivating people.

'Cause you can affect their work, you can affect the nature of their work. You can give them recognition, you can give them autonomy. 

Mike: The hygiene stuff is, it reminds me of watching Kitchen Nightmares, Gordon Ramsey. I actually learned a ton about how to run a restaurant by watching Kitchen Nightmares. 'cause he in the first couple seasons you see everything that when things are going wrong, that's what it looks like, right? Not clear policies. The fridge isn't, fridge isn't tuned, right? So if you know what not to do, you know what to do, and that's the good operational hygiene clear policies, Yeah.

Makes sense.

Kristen: Yeah. So that's, that's the two factor theory. And then the last one I wanna talk about is expectancy theory. This was developed by a psychologist named Victor Vroom,

Mike: Really? Vroom. Vroom, vroom. Come on. The

Kristen: coolest name, I think.

Mike: Come on.

Kristen: in 1964.

Yeah. Room.

Mike: All right.

Kristen: I know what, like with a name like that

Mike: like

Kristen: Like how can you not be successful in your career? Right. Um,

Mike: Maybe before we made the vroom vroom sound.

Kristen: I mean, there were cars then,

like he only died in like 2000, but I could be mixing them up because they're all different psychologists.

but yeah. But the idea.

Mike: Herzberg passed away in 2000.

Kristen: Okay, so maybe that was the one. But, the idea of expectancy theory is that people are motivated to engage in certain behaviors because of their expected outcomes. So the individual is making choices based on their estimates of like how well the expected results of a given behavior are gonna lead to their desired results. And this does, I think, more so than the other theories. I think it recognizes that what motivates one employee to complete their work might not work for all employees. So there's some individual factors in here.So there's three components of this theory. So the first one is expectancy. This is the belief that increased efforts will lead to better performance. So this is kind of asking the question, if I work hard, will I hit my targets? Like if I put in the effort, will I accomplish the performance that I'm looking to

Mike: Well, that's why the millennials are not.

Kristen: well,

Mike: Their target, like the target that we think that they should be hitting and oh, if you work really hard, you can what? Own a home. And that, that's not their target and they can't hit that target.

Kristen: Yeah. Well that, that's a little bit more in other parts of this theory, but we'll get there. But yeah, the things that influence a person's expectancy, there's like a few different types of factors. So self-efficacy, so that's your own belief about your ability to perform the behavior. So like, can I successfully do the behavior that will lead to the desired performance. Goal difficulty. So like whether the person has the necessary skills to perform the behavior, if you're not confident in your ability to do this, get this particular performance level, then it's gonna impact this. And also perceived control. So your own belief about how much control you have over the outcome. 

So that's the first of the three components is expectancy. So again, if I work hard, will I hit my targets? First component.

And second one is instrumentality. So this is the belief that if better performance is achieved, it will result in a certain outcome. So the first one is, if I put in the effort, I will achieve the performance. Instrumentality is if I achieve this performance it will result in this desired outcome. If I hit my targets, will I be rewarded? And there this is influenced by factors like trust for those who distribute the rewards based on performance. Control over how the decision is made and evidence of policies that reflect an acceptable correlation between performance and outcomes.

So I think a great example of this is if you have salespeople and everybody gets the same bonus no matter what, like that's clearly going to impact the instrumentality, versus like a typical sales incentive plan where it's correlated. But if it's a poorly set up incentive plan where what you're the, if you are achieving performance, it's not actually going to lead to you getting a higher bonus or whatever the outcome is, then it's going to result in low instrumentality. So that's the second component. And then the third component is valence. So this is the perceived value of the rewards of the outcome based on your own needs, goals, values, and So this is like, how valuable do I find that reward? Like is this something that I actually care about? is, do I care about this promotion?

Do I care about this bonus? whatever it is, and this is gonna have some individual variance based on what is motivating to that particular person. Sowhat you basically end up with is this kind of equation for motivational force. So it's going to be expectancy times instrumentality, times valence.

So all three of these factors impact what the actual like motivation level is. And when deciding among behavioral options, people select the option with the greatest amount of motivational force. So like the greatest product of all three of these things. if you have one of them, it's really low. It's going to drag down that overall motivation.

Can we talk about valence for a moment? Yeah. Okay.I know that word as a chemistry and physics word for, for, I think it's an electron. 

Mike: I'm trying to look it up. So valence, the degree of combining power of an element is shown by the number of atomic weights of a non or a monovalent element, such as hydrogen. In human behavior. It refers to the pleasantness or unpleasantness of an emotional stimuli. The degree of attractiveness and individual activity or thing possesses as a behavior that's a weird word to ha. So, okay, so in the late Latin Valencia, Valencia is power and capacity. So that makes sense. That's the line between all those things.

Kristen: Trying to figure out how do we get chemistry Yeah. That is interesting.

Mike: So power and capacity. Okay. That, that tracks. The value of the reward, the power, the capacity. Okay.

Kristen: Yeah. And an expectancy theory. This is how valuable is this?

Mike: I mean, all three of these are really solid ways of looking at like motivational behavior and human behavior.

Kristen: Yeah. And they give you kind of a framework too. Yeah.

Think about if you're trying to motivate your team, like what are these three factors gonna look like?Do they feel like they can achieve that performance by putting in effort? Do they feel like if they achieve that level of performance, they're going to be rewarded?

And do they actually care about the rewards?

Mike: Do they trust you to give them the

Kristen: And do they trust? Yeah, exactly.

Mike: I've known plenty of salespeople that did not get their bonus as promised.

Kristen: Oh yeah. That's a huge derailer of instrumentality. 

Mike: Yeah, 

Kristen: for sure.

So all three of those things matter.

Mike: I mean, we can look at this on a societal scale.

Do we trust the system? You know, it used to be like, work hard and that's was the ethos. And if you work hard, good things will happen. And now it's like, no. And even for myself, I've realized that like just more effort or working harder is not the necess, not really the path to,multiplying your position in the workplace or in your, journey toward wealth and I, we read the book 10 x is Easier Than Two x. I think we should do that book at some point, It's not exactly a leadership book, but it's what, like people have figured out, like you can put content on YouTube and if it's the right content and the right audience, you can become a multimillionaire just from your YouTube channel, and it's not necessarily working harder. That guy is not working a 16 hour day in the kitchen. I'm not saying it's not hard. I've seen the entertainment industry, like actors, they work very hard. Those are hard jobs, but that, now you can post on TikTok and if it's the right content, 

you're so that doesn't track. We know the system's not going to reward us just for our physical labors anymore. Mm-hmm. That myth has been totally dispelled.

Kristen: Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, right?

Mike: Everybody wants to be insta-famous.Is that still a word? Am I a few years too late?

Kristen: I mean, as far as I know, but I don't know. I'm not Gen Z,

Mike: Yeah,

Kristen: Gen Z which generation is that?

That's like the ones who are, I think like mostly twenties right now.

Mike: Mm-hmm.Gen x. We're all just like sitting back watching all of this catch fire. Like we knew it.

Kristen: it.

Mike: We were waiting.

Kristen: Yeah. I'm like elder millennial,

Mike: Millennial. I think it's, it'd be interesting to do, like, I'm sure people have done this track motivational, variances through the generations perceptions, and I'm sure there's studies out there,

Kristen: I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's 

Mike: It's changed a lot in my life.The values and the path and that we were kind of sold when I was young is not what turned out to be the reality.

Kristen: Yeah. I think a lot of people feel that way.

Mike: Yeah. Valence.

Kristen: So, yeah, those are the three theories that I wanted to talk about. Like I said, there's other ones out there, but these are, I think, three the most like interesting ones applied to the workplace and. How do you like put this all together? So what does this actually mean? Like how do you successfully motivate people?

So like some of the key components, knowing that, if you're like a middle manager, you might have control over some of these more than others, but knowing what to strive for. So building like a safe, supportive environment. So an environment that is meaning basic physical psych, psychological needs or like safe workplaces, clear policies, secure atmosphere. Fostering a sense of belonging.

So a lot of this is cultural, but also things like developing team building initiatives, open communication channels and inclusive meetings that you're aiming for like every team member to feel connected and valued. Maintaining these like essential hygiene factors. Competitive salaries, adequate benefits, favorable company policies and safe working conditions to prevent that active job dissatisfaction. Again, you may or may not have control over all of these, sometimes, you're at the mercy of your overall company's policies on compensation, but, you can go to bat for an individual employee and depending on the company sometimes being successful. So it's things to think about. offering recognition and celebrating achievements. So like this is getting into these esteem needs, right? But it also gets into the two factor theory. So really regularly acknowledging both small wins and major accomplishments with sincere praise, constructive feedback, and reinforcing that their efforts ultimately matter. Providing opportunities for growth and development, so investing in professional development training, mentorship programs, and really making sure that you have a variety of ways to help empower employees to grow and reach their full potential. Designing, enriching and engaging roles. So this is thinking about, this is like the nature of the work, right? 

So creating roles that are varied and challenging and are aligning the task with the individual's strengths and what they care about,and doing what you can to make their work feel meaningful and purposeful.

Then setting clear goals with aligned rewards. A lot of this is from expectancy theory, defining measurable, achievable objectives, aligning and making sure that there's a transparent link between effort and rewards. So whether it's bonuses, promotions, incentives,making sure that those are actually tied to performance and the efforts that have been put in.

Then finally like investing in continuous skill building and feedback, so providing like ongoing training and resources and regular constructive feedback sessions to help boost confidence and performance. 

Mike: It's very solid. That's how you run a country as well, by the way.

Kristen: Yeah. Yeah. Ideally.

Mike: Probably a family as well. They're all kind of the same.

Kristen: These, this, it really relates to like, I mean, these are, this is psychology, right? Like ultimately when we talk about motivation. So it's pretty cool. I think I love nerding out on this stuff. 

So, yeah. So that's the episode. any final words?

Mike: Well, I'd be remiss if I didn't quote Jocko.

Kristen: Oh my god. Sorry.

Mike: Motivation at least in like training and jitz and, discipline beats motivation. Motivation is something external.

You wait for the right environment. You wait for the right compensation plan. You write, wait for the right company. But if you're disciplined, you will have an internal like compass and drive that will push you forward.

Yeah. And motivation, waxes and wanes. Discipline is yours.

Kristen: And it's very like military.

Mike: It is, I'm an artist, right? Like, I like to be up at two in the morning and my discipline is not that every day I will work out, but my discipline is that over the course of 10 years, I will work out a lot and I won't stop. You know?

Kristen: I mean, you work out very

Mike: Yeah, but it's not every day. I'm not one of those people that's like, I hit the alarm Jocko's truly, like he wakes up every morning at four 30 and goes to workout. I will never be that person, but I have threads of discipline that run that, four times a week I'm gonna train. It doesn't, I don't know when always I'll take the fleeting moments of inspiration, but, their like consistency beats motivation.

Yeah. Motivation, like all of these things, to some degree, they're external, right? But, I think if you want to create, and I love the way you put these together steps to motivate employees or really it's steps to create a harmonious environment. You know, but in order to do that, you're gonna need your own discipline. 

Kristen: Yep. Yeah. Like as a leader of your own practices?

Mike: Your own practices, your own 

Kristen: Yeah. 

Mike: Awesome stuff.

Kristen: Awesome.this was fun talking about, we will go ahead and to wrap up here. Thank you guys so much for listening.

Mike: Sorry about our nasally.

Kristen: Yes. And thank you for bearing. If you made it the all the way to the end, thank you for bearing with our sick voices, particularly mine.

So

Mike: So this is an example of discipline.

We would love to not be recording and be sleeping this, but, you know, it's, it's consistency,

Kristen: But we care.

Mike: Discipline equals freedom.

Kristen: Oh my God. Okay.

Mike: It does. Okay.

Kristen: On that 

Mike: note,

We'll do that book sometime.

Kristen: Yeah. At some point.

Mm-hmm.All right. Goodbye everybody.

Mike: Thank you. 

Kristen: The Love and Leadership Podcast is produced and co-hosted by me, Kristen Brun Sharkey and co-hosted by Mike Sharkey. Please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcasts. We can't stress enough just how much these reviews help. You can follow us on LinkedIn under Kristen Brun Sharkey and Michael Sharkey, and on Instagram as loveleaderpod.

You can also find more information on our website, loveandleadershippod.com. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you again next week.